Superman Kills

Kingbreaker Age : 47

Shadowrenderer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Mr.Wholesome wrote:: This is really just becoming a matter of syntax. I suppose it just depends on what a person views as murder or killing. I do not believe that killing and murdering is the same thing. Murder I see as willingly killing someone. Killing is not. If you accidentally kill someone then you did not murder them you killed them. If you kill someone on purpose then you have murdered them. Doesn't matter how. The only difference, as I see it, is intent.

Semantics.

But the semantics is important. I side with Wholesome. A soldier who kills for his country is not a murderer. A cop who shoots someone in the line of duty is not a murderer and apparently in Texas you can shoot peole running from your property and that is not murder. Murder is a legal definition. Abortion is not murder, because it is a legally sanctioned medical procedue, even if you do not agree with the law - it is the law of the land.

To Wholesome - my opinion on your scenario is that your description was over the top. You are entitled to write what you like and I support your right to do so. My comment about your words was more about a surprise to the details you put in, than it was a judgement of your mental health (that of course is always in question!) I was not trying to offend you and I apoligize if I have.

The first few post in this thread were referring to Superman murdering, not just killing and my assumption was justified, as Superman had already killed previously and so would negate the need for this thread. But my evidence of Manchester Black's attempts has not been refuted or challenged. Maxwell Lord's manipulation would not make Superman a murderer, so the assumption is what would drive Supes to murder. if you use Wholesome's scenario I would pose a question, suppose it was discovered that Lex had planned it. Then even if Supes would not be convicted for killing those directly invloved - it would be murder if he then went after Lex.

The other evidence for Supes as a murderer was Kingdom Come, Supes was ready to drop the roof on Congress, before Green lantern and Batman convinced him. It begs the question if they were late or had been killed, then would Superman had gone through with it?

I was with you up till abortion.

You will not (or whoever it is that thinks it's not) convince me you're not murdering a living human being.

Law or not, it's wrong.

But all the rest I agree.

I'm also against abortion but Jim was using the "legal" definition of murder and since abortion is legal in America it is not viewed by the law as murder.

Local Age : 45

Mr.Wholesome wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Mr.Wholesome wrote:: This is really just becoming a matter of syntax. I suppose it just depends on what a person views as murder or killing. I do not believe that killing and murdering is the same thing. Murder I see as willingly killing someone. Killing is not. If you accidentally kill someone then you did not murder them you killed them. If you kill someone on purpose then you have murdered them. Doesn't matter how. The only difference, as I see it, is intent.

Semantics.

But the semantics is important. I side with Wholesome. A soldier who kills for his country is not a murderer. A cop who shoots someone in the line of duty is not a murderer and apparently in Texas you can shoot peole running from your property and that is not murder. Murder is a legal definition. Abortion is not murder, because it is a legally sanctioned medical procedue, even if you do not agree with the law - it is the law of the land.

To Wholesome - my opinion on your scenario is that your description was over the top. You are entitled to write what you like and I support your right to do so. My comment about your words was more about a surprise to the details you put in, than it was a judgement of your mental health (that of course is always in question!) I was not trying to offend you and I apoligize if I have.

The first few post in this thread were referring to Superman murdering, not just killing and my assumption was justified, as Superman had already killed previously and so would negate the need for this thread. But my evidence of Manchester Black's attempts has not been refuted or challenged. Maxwell Lord's manipulation would not make Superman a murderer, so the assumption is what would drive Supes to murder. if you use Wholesome's scenario I would pose a question, suppose it was discovered that Lex had planned it. Then even if Supes would not be convicted for killing those directly invloved - it would be murder if he then went after Lex.

The other evidence for Supes as a murderer was Kingdom Come, Supes was ready to drop the roof on Congress, before Green lantern and Batman convinced him. It begs the question if they were late or had been killed, then would Superman had gone through with it?

I was with you up till abortion.

You will not (or whoever it is that thinks it's not) convince me you're not murdering a living human being.

Law or not, it's wrong.

But all the rest I agree.

I'm also against abortion but Jim was using the "legal" definition of murder and since abortion is legal in America it is not viewed by the law as murder.

It's the same here.

I still don't agree with it.

But I know what he is saying.

the numero dos Age : 34

I'm with Jim and GWN on the abortion thing. No, I'm not pro-abortion and to use such a term would be misleading. But I do support the right of a woman to make such a a choice. I think people try to draw a line in the sand and it's ultimately arbitrary. I mean I don't think you can really intelligently argue that the second sperm meets egg that's a life nor can you say an eight month old fetus isn't.

Now, while I wouldn't have my girlfriend or any woman who was pregnant with my potential child have an abortion I'm not going to out say it's morally wrong. To do so would be judgmental and I don't know if anyone on here has had or knows someone who has had an abortion because it was necessary as the conditions of birth would be unsafe for both them and the child.

Anyway. What were we talking about? Superman?

The Main Man Age : 50

True Believer wrote:: I'm with Jim and GWN on the abortion thing. No, I'm not pro-abortion and to use such a term would be misleading. But I do support the right of a woman to make such a a choice. I think people try to draw a line in the sand and it's ultimately arbitrary. I mean I don't think you can really intelligently argue that the second sperm meets egg that's a life nor can you say an eight month old fetus isn't.

Now, while I wouldn't have my girlfriend or any woman who was pregnant with my potential child have an abortion I'm not going to out say it's morally wrong. To do so would be judgmental and I don't know if anyone on here has had or knows someone who has had an abortion because it was necessary as the conditions of birth would be unsafe for both them and the child.

Anyway. What were we talking about? Superman?

Here's what I have to say about abortion....and I realize I'm opening myself up for jokes...however...I should have been an abortion. The doctor told my mom that one of us would die during the birth process, and that if I was the one to survive, I would be severely mentally retarded. My mother went ahead anyway, obviously, and told the doctors, if they could only save one of us, make sure it was the baby. Needless to say, I'm alive, I have an I.Q. of 147, and my mom is still alive and kicking at 73 years of age. Now....back to Superman.....

the numero dos Age : 34

GoZ wrote:

True Believer wrote:: I'm with Jim and GWN on the abortion thing. No, I'm not pro-abortion and to use such a term would be misleading. But I do support the right of a woman to make such a a choice. I think people try to draw a line in the sand and it's ultimately arbitrary. I mean I don't think you can really intelligently argue that the second sperm meets egg that's a life nor can you say an eight month old fetus isn't.

Now, while I wouldn't have my girlfriend or any woman who was pregnant with my potential child have an abortion I'm not going to out say it's morally wrong. To do so would be judgmental and I don't know if anyone on here has had or knows someone who has had an abortion because it was necessary as the conditions of birth would be unsafe for both them and the child.

Anyway. What were we talking about? Superman?

Here's what I have to say about abortion....and I realize I'm opening myself up for jokes...however...I should have been an abortion. The doctor told my mom that one of us would die during the birth process, and that if I was the one to survive, I would be severely mentally retarded. My mother went ahead anyway, obviously, and told the doctors, if they could only save one of us, make sure it was the baby. Needless to say, I'm alive, I have an I.Q. of 147, and my mom is still alive and kicking at 73 years of age. Now....back to Superman.....

That's really interesting but I'm not 100% sure what you're saying.

Are you saying your mother should've aborted you rather than risk her health or that the risk was acceptable since everything turned out okay?

Obviously, I'm not making a judgment in either direction, since I can't even begin to attempt to understand what it would be like to make such a decision.

The Main Man Age : 50

True Believer wrote:

GoZ wrote:

True Believer wrote:: I'm with Jim and GWN on the abortion thing. No, I'm not pro-abortion and to use such a term would be misleading. But I do support the right of a woman to make such a a choice. I think people try to draw a line in the sand and it's ultimately arbitrary. I mean I don't think you can really intelligently argue that the second sperm meets egg that's a life nor can you say an eight month old fetus isn't.

Now, while I wouldn't have my girlfriend or any woman who was pregnant with my potential child have an abortion I'm not going to out say it's morally wrong. To do so would be judgmental and I don't know if anyone on here has had or knows someone who has had an abortion because it was necessary as the conditions of birth would be unsafe for both them and the child.

Anyway. What were we talking about? Superman?

Here's what I have to say about abortion....and I realize I'm opening myself up for jokes...however...I should have been an abortion. The doctor told my mom that one of us would die during the birth process, and that if I was the one to survive, I would be severely mentally retarded. My mother went ahead anyway, obviously, and told the doctors, if they could only save one of us, make sure it was the baby. Needless to say, I'm alive, I have an I.Q. of 147, and my mom is still alive and kicking at 73 years of age. Now....back to Superman.....

That's really interesting but I'm not 100% sure what you're saying.

Are you saying your mother should've aborted you rather than risk her health or that the risk was acceptable since everything turned out okay?

Obviously, I'm not making a judgment in either direction, since I can't even begin to attempt to understand what it would be like to make such a decision.

I'm just saying, human judgement is fallible......

Youngling Age : 36

hm... what would make Supes kill? I think it would take a mix of the previously stated scenarios where his loved ones were killed/tortured and also if he lost his hope in humanity.

Can you imagine if the most powerful being on earth decided it was ok to judge humanity and take matters in his own hands? It'd be as bad or worse as Black Adam's WWIII in 52.

If you did take away everything Supes' cared about (including destroying Earth) wouldn't it be the second time he lost his whole world.

the numero dos Age : 34

Gabe_Gray wrote:: hm... what would make Supes kill? I think it would take a mix of the previously stated scenarios where his loved ones were killed/tortured and also if he lost his hope in humanity.

Can you imagine if the most powerful being on earth decided it was ok to judge humanity and take matters in his own hands? It'd be as bad or worse as Black Adam's WWIII in 52.

If you did take away everything Supes' cared about (including destroying Earth) wouldn't it be the second time he lost his whole world.

Yes, except the first time it happened he couldn't even remember, so it would have a much more powerful affect than losing Krypton.

Not saying he couldn't make it through without compromising his morals. Supergirl did alright. Superboy-Prime on the other hand . . .

Rogue Age : 34

True Believer wrote:

GoZ wrote:

True Believer wrote:: I'm with Jim and GWN on the abortion thing. No, I'm not pro-abortion and to use such a term would be misleading. But I do support the right of a woman to make such a a choice. I think people try to draw a line in the sand and it's ultimately arbitrary. I mean I don't think you can really intelligently argue that the second sperm meets egg that's a life nor can you say an eight month old fetus isn't.

Now, while I wouldn't have my girlfriend or any woman who was pregnant with my potential child have an abortion I'm not going to out say it's morally wrong. To do so would be judgmental and I don't know if anyone on here has had or knows someone who has had an abortion because it was necessary as the conditions of birth would be unsafe for both them and the child.

Anyway. What were we talking about? Superman?

Here's what I have to say about abortion....and I realize I'm opening myself up for jokes...however...I should have been an abortion. The doctor told my mom that one of us would die during the birth process, and that if I was the one to survive, I would be severely mentally retarded. My mother went ahead anyway, obviously, and told the doctors, if they could only save one of us, make sure it was the baby. Needless to say, I'm alive, I have an I.Q. of 147, and my mom is still alive and kicking at 73 years of age. Now....back to Superman.....

That's really interesting but I'm not 100% sure what you're saying.

Are you saying your mother should've aborted you rather than risk her health or that the risk was acceptable since everything turned out okay?

Obviously, I'm not making a judgment in either direction, since I can't even begin to attempt to understand what it would be like to make such a decision.

The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.
but yes back to the main point of the topic, I think supes would kill if you raped one of his family members (considerably Lois) or if you just killed one of them.

Youngling Age : 36

This thread made me wonder what Superman will do considering what happened in Final Crisis #2

Spoiler:

Guest

Gabe_Gray wrote:

This thread made me wonder what Superman will do considering what happened in Final Crisis #2

Spoiler:

Remember, Manchester Black already tried this. He made Superman beleive that he, Black had killed Lois in an hope that Superman would kill Black, but Superman did not. As I stated before there are people, Quakers, Amish and Bhuddists who will not take a life under any circumstance. I think he would react but when push comes to shove, Supes wouldn't cross that line.

Guest

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

the numero dos Age : 34

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

Guest

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

Thanks, and now I'll have to spend the rest of the day trying to get that image out of my head!

the numero dos Age : 34

Jim! wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

Thanks, and now I'll have to spend the rest of the day trying to get that image out of my head!

Thought I'd leave a bigger impression than that.

The Man of Tomorrow Age : 38

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

Thanks, and now I'll have to spend the rest of the day trying to get that image out of my head!

Thought I'd leave a bigger impression than that.

so that's why your woman dumped ya...

the numero dos Age : 34

Shaun wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

Thanks, and now I'll have to spend the rest of the day trying to get that image out of my head!

Thought I'd leave a bigger impression than that.

so that's why your woman dumped ya...

Sir Smokes-A-Lot Age : 35

True Believer wrote:

Jim! wrote:

TheUbiquitious_MrLoveBear wrote:: The only way I see abortion as ok, is IF and ONLY IF the mother AND/OR the baby are at risk of dying. Otherwise I don't see it ok. Just because abortion is legal in U.S. means its not murder? Then why would it be called murder else where? Say Chile.

I think it is illegal in most middle eastern countries, but it is allowable in Chile. I think it is easy for men who would never have make such a decision to tell women that they have to carry a baby no matter what they wanted to do. I think abortion should be a last option, but I don't think I have any right to tell a woman what she has to do any more than I should tell a fat person he has to lose wieght or a smoker has to stop smoking - that is a personal decision between that person, her doctor and whatever diety she answers to. It's funny that on these threads, a lot of members talk about having sex, but I don't hear a lot of talk about personal responsibility. You want to dance, but you don't want to pay the piper.

Amen, Jim!

But, just for the record, I wrap my rascal 2 times cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation.

I know your just joking TB (or at least I hope you are) but thats actually really unsafe. The friction of both "wrappers" creates tears and holes. So remember kids be safe....just not to safe.

Youngling Age : 35

there was just an F***ing earthquake! I have lived in so cali my hole life and just experienced my first one! Crazy mang crazy

the numero dos Age : 34

PinkPather wrote:: there was just an F***ing earthquake! I have lived in so cali my hole life and just experienced my first one! Crazy mang crazy

. . .

Exciting. Was it a big one?

And this doesn't belong here.

And, yes, I know I'm just encouraging further conversation.

Guest

PinkPather wrote:: there was just an F***ing earthquake! I have lived in so cali my hole life and just experienced my first one! Crazy mang crazy

Surely you must have felt the big Northridge quake in '94? Some folks felt todays tremor, I did not.

Sir Smokes-A-Lot Age : 35

True Believer wrote:

PinkPather wrote:: there was just an F***ing earthquake! I have lived in so cali my hole life and just experienced my first one! Crazy mang crazy

. . .

Exciting. Was it a big one?

And this doesn't belong here.

And, yes, I know I'm just encouraging further conversation.

He is brand new to the forum TB, cut him some slack.

Youngling Age : 35

sorry i was going to write something about that was on topic but a quake hit so i got side tracked.

No i was in kansas when the 94 one hit plus i was only 7 at the time

the numero dos Age : 34

GreatWhiteNinja wrote:

True Believer wrote:

PinkPather wrote:: there was just an F***ing earthquake! I have lived in so cali my hole life and just experienced my first one! Crazy mang crazy

. . .

Exciting. Was it a big one?

And this doesn't belong here.

And, yes, I know I'm just encouraging further conversation.

He is brand new to the forum TB, cut him some slack.

Slack was cut.

I mean, I have to say something, but I don't think I was a dick about it.

Local Age : 45

Well this is interesting. discussing abortion on a Superman thread.

anyway, I believe it's a human life from the moment of conception. You can't draw a line in the sand, as you put it TB, & say at this magic number of months it's a life b4 that it's a "thing" with less rights than any other human.

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