Azrael Returns?

Jim! wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

Jim! wrote:

Angels, or devils form Hell always rub me the wrong way... that didn't come out right. I think religion-based mythological creatures should all be verbotten.

Verboten in comic books completely? Why?

Even as I wrote this, I'm thinking, well I like Hellboy and the Spectre, but I hate Ghost Rider. As soon as you have a Zuriel in the flesh, so to speak, then his power can be quantified. And once its measurable then it can compared to others and you get the quesiton is he stronger than Superman, or Superman Prime? And if he isn't then for me the next logical question is superman-prime stronger than God, how about Galactus or Eternity or Death and that for me lessens God. Which is funny because I'm an athiest, but I don't want my heroes literally wrestling with the Devil. They exist in their own genre and they should stay there.

Yeah but I mean all of comics include dieties from many religions...


does that mean we should do away with Thor, Loki, Herc, Ares, Asgard and Olympus in general, Lucifer from Vertigo, and many other characters taken from religions from all over the world?


I mean I get the general idea of what your'e saying.. but like DanE said, the One above All is like the God of the Marvel U, and dwarfs everyone elses power. Well maybe not Jack Kirby God.

PeteWisdom wrote:

Jim! wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

Jim! wrote:

Angels, or devils form Hell always rub me the wrong way... that didn't come out right. I think religion-based mythological creatures should all be verbotten.

Verboten in comic books completely? Why?

Even as I wrote this, I'm thinking, well I like Hellboy and the Spectre, but I hate Ghost Rider. As soon as you have a Zuriel in the flesh, so to speak, then his power can be quantified. And once its measurable then it can compared to others and you get the quesiton is he stronger than Superman, or Superman Prime? And if he isn't then for me the next logical question is superman-prime stronger than God, how about Galactus or Eternity or Death and that for me lessens God. Which is funny because I'm an athiest, but I don't want my heroes literally wrestling with the Devil. They exist in their own genre and they should stay there.

Yeah but I mean all of comics include dieties from many religions...


does that mean we should do away with Thor, Loki, Herc, Ares, Asgard and Olympus in general, Lucifer from Vertigo, and many other characters taken from religions from all over the world?


I mean I get the general idea of what your'e saying.. but like DanE said, the One above All is like the God of the Marvel U, and dwarfs everyone elses power. Well maybe not Jack Kirby God.

Jack Kirby got bumped up from "King" to "G-d?" Nice, I didn't get the memo!

DanElectro wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

Jim! wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

Jim! wrote:

Angels, or devils form Hell always rub me the wrong way... that didn't come out right. I think religion-based mythological creatures should all be verbotten.

Verboten in comic books completely? Why?

Even as I wrote this, I'm thinking, well I like Hellboy and the Spectre, but I hate Ghost Rider. As soon as you have a Zuriel in the flesh, so to speak, then his power can be quantified. And once its measurable then it can compared to others and you get the quesiton is he stronger than Superman, or Superman Prime? And if he isn't then for me the next logical question is superman-prime stronger than God, how about Galactus or Eternity or Death and that for me lessens God. Which is funny because I'm an athiest, but I don't want my heroes literally wrestling with the Devil. They exist in their own genre and they should stay there.

Yeah but I mean all of comics include dieties from many religions...


does that mean we should do away with Thor, Loki, Herc, Ares, Asgard and Olympus in general, Lucifer from Vertigo, and many other characters taken from religions from all over the world?


I mean I get the general idea of what your'e saying.. but like DanE said, the One above All is like the God of the Marvel U, and dwarfs everyone elses power. Well maybe not Jack Kirby God.

Jack Kirby got bumped up from "King" to "G-d?" Nice, I didn't get the memo!

yeah, it was in an ish of Fantastic 4.


They actually went to Heaven, and God was a man (resembling Kirby) sitting at an art desk.


so yes, he is.



Anyways about Azreal.. I'm sure it will be somewhere in Batman RIP or Batman Rebirth.


how do I feel about this? Eh... we'll just have to see.

PeteWisdom wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

Jim! wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

Jim! wrote:

Angels, or devils form Hell always rub me the wrong way... that didn't come out right. I think religion-based mythological creatures should all be verbotten.

Verboten in comic books completely? Why?

Even as I wrote this, I'm thinking, well I like Hellboy and the Spectre, but I hate Ghost Rider. As soon as you have a Zuriel in the flesh, so to speak, then his power can be quantified. And once its measurable then it can compared to others and you get the quesiton is he stronger than Superman, or Superman Prime? And if he isn't then for me the next logical question is superman-prime stronger than God, how about Galactus or Eternity or Death and that for me lessens God. Which is funny because I'm an athiest, but I don't want my heroes literally wrestling with the Devil. They exist in their own genre and they should stay there.

Yeah but I mean all of comics include dieties from many religions...


does that mean we should do away with Thor, Loki, Herc, Ares, Asgard and Olympus in general, Lucifer from Vertigo, and many other characters taken from religions from all over the world?


I mean I get the general idea of what your'e saying.. but like DanE said, the One above All is like the God of the Marvel U, and dwarfs everyone elses power. Well maybe not Jack Kirby God.

Jack Kirby got bumped up from "King" to "G-d?" Nice, I didn't get the memo!

yeah, it was in an ish of Fantastic 4.


They actually went to Heaven, and God was a man (resembling Kirby) sitting at an art desk.


so yes, he is.



Anyways about Azreal.. I'm sure it will be somewhere in Batman RIP or Batman Rebirth.


how do I feel about this? Eh... we'll just have to see.

Don't change the subject!

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

DanElectro wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

Jim! wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

Jim! wrote:

Angels, or devils form Hell always rub me the wrong way... that didn't come out right. I think religion-based mythological creatures should all be verbotten.

Verboten in comic books completely? Why?

Even as I wrote this, I'm thinking, well I like Hellboy and the Spectre, but I hate Ghost Rider. As soon as you have a Zuriel in the flesh, so to speak, then his power can be quantified. And once its measurable then it can compared to others and you get the quesiton is he stronger than Superman, or Superman Prime? And if he isn't then for me the next logical question is superman-prime stronger than God, how about Galactus or Eternity or Death and that for me lessens God. Which is funny because I'm an athiest, but I don't want my heroes literally wrestling with the Devil. They exist in their own genre and they should stay there.

Yeah but I mean all of comics include dieties from many religions...


does that mean we should do away with Thor, Loki, Herc, Ares, Asgard and Olympus in general, Lucifer from Vertigo, and many other characters taken from religions from all over the world?


I mean I get the general idea of what your'e saying.. but like DanE said, the One above All is like the God of the Marvel U, and dwarfs everyone elses power. Well maybe not Jack Kirby God.

Jack Kirby got bumped up from "King" to "G-d?" Nice, I didn't get the memo!

yeah, it was in an ish of Fantastic 4.


They actually went to Heaven, and God was a man (resembling Kirby) sitting at an art desk.


so yes, he is.



Anyways about Azreal.. I'm sure it will be somewhere in Batman RIP or Batman Rebirth.


how do I feel about this? Eh... we'll just have to see.

Don't change the subject!

I didn't...


the previous subject ended because there weas nothing more to contribute to it.

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

So you think he's Jewish? Whether or not he's Methodist is certainly debatable, but everything I've seen suggests he's Christian and was raised Christian.

I don't think the fact that Shuster and Seigel were Jewish mean they made their character Jewish. They made him the poster boy for Midwestern values. And even I ate Kosher before I went vegetarian.

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

So you think he's Jewish? Whether or not he's Methodist is certainly debatable, but everything I've seen suggests he's Christian and was raised Christian.

I don't think the fact that Shuster and Seigel were Jewish mean they made their character Jewish. They made him the poster boy for Midwestern values. And even I ate Kosher before I went vegetarian.

I'm saying you're not Jewish...emmmm...yeah anyway.

Superman can and should be anything to anyone. But religion should ...proooooobably stay out of comics at least as far as assigning a specific religious belief to a pop superhero. I'm sure every writer and every editor followed their own agenda when writing Supes.

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

So you think he's Jewish? Whether or not he's Methodist is certainly debatable, but everything I've seen suggests he's Christian and was raised Christian.

I don't think the fact that Shuster and Seigel were Jewish mean they made their character Jewish. They made him the poster boy for Midwestern values. And even I ate Kosher before I went vegetarian.

I'm saying you're not Jewish...emmmm...yeah anyway.

Superman can and should be anything to anyone. But religion should ...proooooobably stay out of comics at least as far as assigning a specific religious belief to a pop superhero. I'm sure every writer and every editor followed their own agenda when writing Supes.

I think you may be following your own agenda a little bit, there. I'm not saying I disagree about religion staying out of, at least, iconic superhero comics. But there's too much canonical evidence to suggest that Clark's Christian for you to ignore.

And Dan Lynch . . . People who aren't Christian can have morals, too, y'know.

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

True Believer wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

Shadowrenderer wrote:

TJ wrote:

I acutally like the first design but....eh whatever ya know?

I like the colour scheme of the first. But I would make some changes.

I also like the character as a religious guy. He's clearly got issues & showing a weird cult that's sudo-catholic is interesting if a little worrying.

as for Zaurial I didn't like him. As a Christian I didn't feel he truelly represented what Christians believe. Obviulsy any time you write a character who believes soething dif than yourself there will be conflict, but Morrison never captured the right feel for him imo.

Any character that claims to represent or the writer claims they represent a certain view point really needs to know what they're talking about. Most religious characters, I find, are not good representations of said belief.

Like Helena Bertenelli? But than again.......she's always been a conflicted character with her beliefs.

Well I haven't read all that many Huntress stories.

It just seems to me when a writer (and this goes for movies & tv) want's a religious character they almost always chose a catholic & pretty much always a conflicted Catholic. I understand that adds drama, but I would like to see some characters who actually know for sure what they believe.

There have been a few over time, but not many.

Well, yeah, but anytime you write a character whose religion is a central element of the story there's always going to be some conflict. It's the same way with Mr. Terrific whose atheist and (if you've been reading recent issues of JSA) was crying in church about how badly he wants to believe because Gog won't talk to him or something.

Characters who are sure about what they believe don't constantly talk about it and it's not a central issue because they don't make it one. Superman is Methodist and it's rarely ever referenced because he's sure about what he believes. The same with Hank Pym whose widely considered atheist. Fact is writers tend to keep a character's religion out of the story unless it somehow serves the story, and a central part of any story is conflict.

Yeah I know.

Just saying that most characters that the writer wants to be "religious" end up being terrible steriotypes or they just get it wrong.

Eh. Every writer has a different interpretation of every religion. Some people are bound not to like it. Look at Booster Gold, he's supposed to be areligious and is completely selfish and materialistic (or was, anyway).

But, again, there are plenty of characters who are religious and aren't stereotypical or morally ambiguous, but their religion just isn't a central element of the story (i.e.- Superman).

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

So you think he's Jewish? Whether or not he's Methodist is certainly debatable, but everything I've seen suggests he's Christian and was raised Christian.

I don't think the fact that Shuster and Seigel were Jewish mean they made their character Jewish. They made him the poster boy for Midwestern values. And even I ate Kosher before I went vegetarian.

I'm saying you're not Jewish...emmmm...yeah anyway.

Superman can and should be anything to anyone. But religion should ...proooooobably stay out of comics at least as far as assigning a specific religious belief to a pop superhero. I'm sure every writer and every editor followed their own agenda when writing Supes.

I think you may be following your own agenda a little bit, there. I'm not saying I disagree about religion staying out of, at least, iconic superhero comics. But there's too much canonical evidence to suggest that Clark's Christian for you to ignore.

And Dan Lynch . . . People who aren't Christian can have morals, too, y'know.

I actually mistyped a few things above (e.g. joke where I was trying to say that "I'm NOT saying you're not Jewish" ...whatever).

My point is that there will always be people with their own agendas who will try to assign their own system of beliefs on a popular character or person with very little evidence suggesting that character/person has any specific religious affiliation.

I'm also pretty sure that Superman has in impliedly been made out to be a Christian (I've also read about him being Methodist particularly since he has a Midwestern upbringing) as it is and was a more popular religion among the readership (especially during Action Comics heyday when they had millions of regular readers).

But, aside from it being the proper thing to do to keep religion out of comics in these particular circumstances, with respect to Supes, it would also make sense that, since he's an alien, and considering that he is the "people's champion" (meaning EVERYONE), he would not want to select any particular religion for himself at all. But then, I'm just thinking logically.

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

True Believer wrote:

DanElectro wrote:

What religion is Supes again?

Methodist according to this website which seems pretty well sourced.

Because he's an alien from a distant planet or because he was created by a Jewish artist and a Jewish writer?

I don't understand? According to the website and the dozens of panels contained therein he is Christian and Methodist specifically. This is considered canon, as it was established in Action Comics #850.

I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw him order Kosher take-out in an iss a while back.

So you think he's Jewish? Whether or not he's Methodist is certainly debatable, but everything I've seen suggests he's Christian and was raised Christian.

I don't think the fact that Shuster and Seigel were Jewish mean they made their character Jewish. They made him the poster boy for Midwestern values. And even I ate Kosher before I went vegetarian.

I'm saying you're not Jewish...emmmm...yeah anyway.

Superman can and should be anything to anyone. But religion should ...proooooobably stay out of comics at least as far as assigning a specific religious belief to a pop superhero. I'm sure every writer and every editor followed their own agenda when writing Supes.

I think you may be following your own agenda a little bit, there. I'm not saying I disagree about religion staying out of, at least, iconic superhero comics. But there's too much canonical evidence to suggest that Clark's Christian for you to ignore.

And Dan Lynch . . . People who aren't Christian can have morals, too, y'know.

I actually mistyped a few things above (e.g. joke where I was trying to say that "I'm NOT saying you're not Jewish" ...whatever).

My point is that there will always be people with their own agendas who will try to assign their own system of beliefs on a popular character or person with very little evidence suggesting that character/person has any specific religious affiliation.

I'm also pretty sure that Superman has in impliedly been made out to be a Christian (I've also read about him being Methodist particularly since he has a Midwestern upbringing) as it is and was a more popular religion among the readership (especially during Action Comics heyday when they had millions of regular readers).

But, aside from it being the proper thing to do to keep religion out of comics in these particular circumstances, with respect to Supes, it would also make sense that, since he's an alien, and considering that he is the "people's champion" (meaning EVERYONE), he would not want to select any particular religion for himself at all. But then, I'm just thinking logically.

I don't think his alien heritage should really factor into it, since he's been on Earth as long as he can remember and and was adopted by parents from Earth.

I agree that Superman shouldn't advertise his religion for fear of alienating people. And he hasn't. I don't think he's going to slap a cross on his chest, rename himself Christianman, and quote scripture to everyone he saves. But religion is a personal thing. I don't think he shouldn't prescribe to any particular religion just because he's the idol of millions and an American icon.

People don't choose their religion based on what makes them most popular (unless you're a politician) but, simply what they believe.

Shadowrenderer wrote:

I know what you're saying dan, but it's well established that Superman is Methodist. You can't just ignore that or change it because most ppl aren't that. It's part of his story.

You need to read what I wrote above...if you have nothing better to do.

And, no, it's not established fact. It's popularly believed is all.