Truthfully........

I think that with tragedy we are all most likely to become villains of some sort. Out of the blue right? Bear with me, I've been contemplating this today. This is more on the aspects of Superboy Prime. A character that is becoming more and more likeable in my book, though he is constantly ripped on for his whining (although I think that has died down). It's so easy for us to say that with tragedy in our lives that we will take it and become a Spiderman or a Batman of some sort. But come on, if anyone of us truly lost something of immense value to us and we knew that there was a way to get it back, what extants would we go too get something back? Would we trespass into the realm of what one may consider "villainy"? I personally, though I like to think the better of humanity, think that road is a more likely one to travel.

It maybe consider "taking the easy way out" and not considering the ramifications of your actions, but honestly we (in general) are such a selfish species. Wanting or eager to have something back that we believe truly belongs to us no matter what happnes. Prime (or characters like him) don't consider the ramifications of their actions, something I think that has become obvious to all of us. So, before I go off and write three more paragraphs on this I will say, that I do hope the better for any and all of us, but it becomes so easy to have back something that we miss entirely we don't care what happens to anyone or anything else, just as long as we have it back.

I get what you're trying to say.


Buts first a few things before I get to my point.

Your idea would have to make Prime develop more than being an immature crybaby that he is.


Granted it has died down a bit, but still.


Yeah, I think we'd all be at a terrible lost, and we'd do anything to get our univers back. But the thing is, would we really travel from Universe to Universe, and destory them all, because they weren't the one we were wanting? To kill billions of innocent people, who have NOTHING to do with anything that pertains to you, simply because they exist, and your world doesn't? Also to kill the heroes of those universes, ones that resemlble the very characters that you idolized as a kid, and kill them without remorese simply because they don't meet your expectations? Right now, Prime is going out of his way to kill some people. He killed numerous green laterns, and heroes, alternate universe, for childish reasons, people he didin't even HAVE to kill.


I think you're trying to make him more complex than he really is.


Silver Aged Power Superman, who throws tantrums, and kills people, because he can't get what he wants.

PeteWisdom wrote:

I get what you're trying to say.


Buts first a few things before I get to my point.

Your idea would have to make Prime develop more than being an immature crybaby that he is.


Granted it has died down a bit, but still.


Yeah, I think we'd all be at a terrible lost, and we'd do anything to get our univers back. But the thing is, would we really travel from Universe to Universe, and destory them all, because they weren't the one we were wanting? To kill billions of innocent people, who have NOTHING to do with anything that pertains to you, simply because they exist, and your world doesn't? Also to kill the heroes of those universes, ones that resemlble the very characters that you idolized as a kid, and kill them without remorese simply because they don't meet your expectations? Right now, Prime is going out of his way to kill some people. He killed numerous green laterns, and heroes, alternate universe, for childish reasons, people he didin't even HAVE to kill.


I think you're trying to make him more complex than he really is.


Silver Aged Power Superman, who throws tantrums, and kills people, because he can't get what he wants.

The post was not just merely about Prime......though the picture sure makes it seems that way. It's just something about humanity I've been thinking of in general.

TJ wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

I get what you're trying to say.


Buts first a few things before I get to my point.

Your idea would have to make Prime develop more than being an immature crybaby that he is.


Granted it has died down a bit, but still.


Yeah, I think we'd all be at a terrible lost, and we'd do anything to get our univers back. But the thing is, would we really travel from Universe to Universe, and destory them all, because they weren't the one we were wanting? To kill billions of innocent people, who have NOTHING to do with anything that pertains to you, simply because they exist, and your world doesn't? Also to kill the heroes of those universes, ones that resemlble the very characters that you idolized as a kid, and kill them without remorese simply because they don't meet your expectations? Right now, Prime is going out of his way to kill some people. He killed numerous green laterns, and heroes, alternate universe, for childish reasons, people he didin't even HAVE to kill.


I think you're trying to make him more complex than he really is.


Silver Aged Power Superman, who throws tantrums, and kills people, because he can't get what he wants.

The post was not just merely about Prime......though the picture sure makes it seems that way. It's just something about humanity I've been thinking of in general.

So basically its about the typical Spider-Man movie villian, where "they're all good people, who get thrown into bad situations and make poor decisions" category?

Shadowrenderer wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

TJ wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

I get what you're trying to say.


Buts first a few things before I get to my point.

Your idea would have to make Prime develop more than being an immature crybaby that he is.


Granted it has died down a bit, but still.


Yeah, I think we'd all be at a terrible lost, and we'd do anything to get our univers back. But the thing is, would we really travel from Universe to Universe, and destory them all, because they weren't the one we were wanting? To kill billions of innocent people, who have NOTHING to do with anything that pertains to you, simply because they exist, and your world doesn't? Also to kill the heroes of those universes, ones that resemlble the very characters that you idolized as a kid, and kill them without remorese simply because they don't meet your expectations? Right now, Prime is going out of his way to kill some people. He killed numerous green laterns, and heroes, alternate universe, for childish reasons, people he didin't even HAVE to kill.


I think you're trying to make him more complex than he really is.


Silver Aged Power Superman, who throws tantrums, and kills people, because he can't get what he wants.

The post was not just merely about Prime......though the picture sure makes it seems that way. It's just something about humanity I've been thinking of in general.

So basically its about the typical Spider-Man movie villian, where "they're all good people, who get thrown into bad situations and make poor decisions" category?

Way to simplify the argument!

I do my best.

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

To TJ's point, I concede that such behavior that Prime displays is prevelant in everyday life. I have seen first hand a father (not my own) who after a divorce believes that his children should be with him and him only and do and say horrible things about their mother in an effort to bully the children. His desire to have the things that belong to him creates such collateral damage to the kids that you have to wonder what he's really fighting for.

But I have also seen people sacrifice all for the good of others after losing everything. You can see it after any disaster that people will come out to help, even though they have lost all.

It's so easy to believe that your pain is worse than anyone else's. That is an immature mindset. WWH was good example of that. All the damage the Hulk caused, because he believes revenge was necessary. It didn't make him a hero, it makes him a prick. The truth is, you have choices to make and if you spend your time wallowing in self-pity than you have missed an opportunity to be heroic. Prime is not likeable. For all his loss, which the Anti-Monitor was responsible for, he sided with him to destroy. Prime could have been the greatest hero , but he is nothing more than a murderous super-powered whiny punk.

The best villains aren't the ones that are truly evil, they are the ones that are victims of circumstance...They were shaped by their environment and situations that were out of their control...It's just like the best heroes aren't the super goody good boy scouts that can do no wrong....It's the people who are "human" and make mistakes just like the rest of us...The world isn't black and white, it's all shades of grey...That's what makes a character truly great...

Leachcraft wrote:

The best villains aren't the ones that are truly evil, they are the ones that are victims of circumstance...They were shaped by their environment and situations that were out of their control...It's just like the best heroes aren't the super goody good boy scouts that can do no wrong....It's the people who are "human" and make mistakes just like the rest of us...The world isn't black and white, it's all shades of grey...That's what makes a character truly great...

yeah but it gets kinda boring having the same thing for all villians..



see Spidey Movie Villians for example.



Why can't there just be ONE thats evil... for the sake of being it. Or just a dick... because he can be. Electro can you do that for me?

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Pete stop bring her up, now that Joel isnt doing it you are...

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Well, yeah... I mean, I wanted to blow up the world when I was a kid.

I was really destructive and I had a craaaaaaazy love for napalm.

Ah, I just don't feel like talking about her...

Leachcraft wrote:

The best villains aren't the ones that are truly evil, they are the ones that are victims of circumstance...They were shaped by their environment and situations that were out of their control...It's just like the best heroes aren't the super goody good boy scouts that can do no wrong....It's the people who are "human" and make mistakes just like the rest of us...The world isn't black and white, it's all shades of grey...That's what makes a character truly great...

Okay, I'll bite. Who do you consider the 3 best villians who were victims of circumstances and who do you consider the 3 best heroes who have made mistakes?

My list would be

villians
Dr. Doom - cause he's a victim of his own hubris
Magneto - who's hatred of humans and especially nazis has put him on the same level as the nazis
Joker - pure sociopath

heroes
Iron man - almost on par with dr. doom in wanting to control everything. he may have been right about the civil war, but his decisions have split the heroes
Spider-man - his one selfish act costs Unclle Ben his life, needs to move on
Green Lantern (hal) - his own belief in his fearlessness opened the door for Parallax.

GreatWhiteNinja wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Pete stop bring her up, now that Joel isnt doing it you are...

He just brought her up in another thread!

Jim! wrote:

Leachcraft wrote:

The best villains aren't the ones that are truly evil, they are the ones that are victims of circumstance...They were shaped by their environment and situations that were out of their control...It's just like the best heroes aren't the super goody good boy scouts that can do no wrong....It's the people who are "human" and make mistakes just like the rest of us...The world isn't black and white, it's all shades of grey...That's what makes a character truly great...

Okay, I'll bite. Who do you consider the 3 best villians who were victims of circumstances and who do you consider the 3 best heroes who have made mistakes?

My list would be

villians
Dr. Doom - cause he's a victim of his own hubris
Magneto - who's hatred of humans and especially nazis has put him on the same level as the nazis
Joker - pure sociopath

heroes
Iron man - almost on par with dr. doom in wanting to control everything. he may have been right about the civil war, but his decisions have split the heroes
Spider-man - his one selfish act costs Unclle Ben his life, needs to move on
Green Lantern (hal) - his own belief in his fearlessness opened the door for Parallax.

That was my list of villians!

PeteWisdom wrote:

GreatWhiteNinja wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Pete stop bring her up, now that Joel isnt doing it you are...

He just brought her up in another thread!

No, I was talking about one of my friends.

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

GreatWhiteNinja wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Pete stop bring her up, now that Joel isnt doing it you are...

He just brought her up in another thread!

No, I was talking about one of my friends.

I don't believe that either.



anyways, Prime's whiney... probably somehow find salvation before they get rid of him.

PeteWisdom wrote:

That was my list of villians!

That's because you're one smart dude.

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

GreatWhiteNinja wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

PeteWisdom wrote:

CaptainJoel wrote:

I actually really had a big preoccupation with being evil when I was younger, but idk... after a while I just lost interest in it.

2 things...




A) I don't believe you


B) I'm a bit shocked you didn't mention the psycho.

You don't believe what?

that you had a big preoccupation with being evil.. for the sake of being evil.


and I still can't believe you didn't mention your psycho.

Pete stop bring her up, now that Joel isnt doing it you are...

He just brought her up in another thread!

No, I was talking about one of my friends.

I don't believe that either.



anyways, Prime's whiney... probably somehow find salvation before they get rid of him.

Yeah, I think they'll find a big way to salvage the character before they throw him away.